Curse

quickmonty · May 23, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

It seems there is an animosity between PvP and PvE players that is increasing since the release of Factions. I know there are many of you who enjoy both aspects of the game, but there are those that lean more towards one style and have a disregard for the other.

There was always a conflict between the two sides (factions?) in Prophecies. That conflict has greatly increased in Factions now that Anet has tried to push us all closer together. I am hoping that Anet sees the error of their ways and, in future chapters, will seperate PvP and PvE so we can all enjoy the aspects of the game we prefer without further increasing the conflicts, flaming and name calling.

Please. No flames or attacks. Let's just discuss this suggestion in a peaceful manner, so we can all enjoy this game in our own way.

Peace.

EternalTempest · May 23, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

/Not Signed

Anet is trying to heal the rift with factions, if it workes or made it worse is still yet to be seen. They gave ability via quest to earn faction points so an all PvE guild or mixed PvE/PvP guild could take a city so you can avoid the 12x12 battles.

I personally don't think they should try and split it. I think the biggest issue when you only play a specific way, any changes that affect you in a negative way cause's the hate / strife not seeing the big picture on how it helps the game as a whole. That is not to say Anet has made some mistakes but Anet also responds. I would give Factions some more time, look how many changes C1 did before it get refined to what it is today.

led-zep · May 23, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

/signed

i hate pvp and i dont feel the need to be forced into it or have it influence so heavily the way pve is played

demon dantes · May 23, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

well as it is now and always has been they have always had special things for pvp. now don t get me wrong if you can come up with a build for pvp and do good you deserve whatever benefit you get from pvp. but here is the problem that most people have. they say well i don t have rank so it is no fair to me. well in some ways this is true but you can still pvp. just like pvp people can pve. so to seperate them i think you would be asking for something that is already around now. you do not have to 12v12 to get faction. yes it is a easy way to get it but you do not need it. now you say well i am only in a guild with 20 people. well no offense but you will never own a town no matter how much 12v12 you do lol. so factions for you would be used for jade and stuff. and if you are mad at that then it is not a pvp-pve problem you are just greedy that you cannot get enough faction w/o pvp so that you can make a ton of money. so unless you would like to see a all pvp game or a all pve game there will never be a seperation of pvp and pve.

shardfenix · May 23, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

I do not mean any disrespect for any of you out there, although i will be flamed for saying this anyway...
Giuld Wars is a PvP game, whether you want it to be or not. They balance skills based on PvP abuse (and 1% of the time on farming abuse). PvE is just an introduction, and should not be kept that seperate.

I started this game as a PvE'er, and a few months into it, started hardcore PvPing, and now I do both, and enjoy both almost equally (most pve players have no clue at all about how combat works). Without combining the 2, I would probably still be rank 0 (not like it's any different from rank 12).

WasAGuest · May 23, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

I'm all for completely seperating the two aspects of the game. I'll mention why, and I'll mention why I don't think Anet will or can do it though.

First, the Why:

PvE and PvP players have completely different goals when they play. One side plays for ego, the other more for vanity and then some both. I'll leave it to you all to descide which is which. Now, ego and vanity are not bad things when game playing, they are a part of the fun. The two playstyles do not mix well at all when attempting to reach their seperate goals.
We can see a rather heated debate going on in several threads about "leechers" and "afkers" going on right now. Well, those "leechers" and "afkers" are just PvEers using the fastest, easiest way they can to get what they are after. If Anet were to not allow rewards (or lessen) for these missions, the PvEers would leave them alone. Of course, this would not be completely fair to the PvPers in those missions. So we have the clashing now.
There's no fix. Sorry, there isn't. Anet can band aid it all they want, but it will never go away. They can add a "kick" system as requested by some and we will find that abused as bigger groups of "leechers" head to those missions and begin to kick out of spite for being kicked and eventually you'll have those missions ruined. You can remove the rewards, but again, that's not really fair. The only way to stop this type of behavior is to seperate the two completely and unlink them 100%. No Favor system. No Rewards for PvE in PvP and vice versa.

Another reason why I support the idea is the quality of the game type suffers from mixing the two. With all the effort put in place to make the two game types come together, the over all game suffered a great deal. Don't agree?, that's fine. We are all entitled to our opinions, but I feel Factions could have been 100 times better if less emphasis was put on bringing the two types together. We probably would have had more and better quests/missions for PvE and the PvP side could have had some newly created, maybe even ground breaking competition style games.

Major upsets, is another reason. The second Anet shows any favor to one of the playstyles and not the other, these boards lite up in flames. Players get ticked off fast. If Anet rewards the PvP mini games in Factions more rewards, then the time playing the other quests and missions is not worth the same, thus the players feel forced to play them. It's the same situation we had with the Luxon Supply run and Kurzick Duel Farm. The other quests were pretty much ignored once players learned these because doing anything else was more time consuming and not worth the effort. At this point, the PvPers wanting to play Jade/Aspen were feeling their gaming choices were not worth it cause the rewards were not on par with the other. As I often do, I mention a possible fix, support it if you like: Here

Why Anet can't seperate the two completely:

This is purely theory on my part.

Anet has a 1 year dev cycle for each chapter. Most PvE or RPGs take longer than that to make. The fact they are able to do a release in that matter still impresses me. PvE content takes much longer to make and release. PvP content is the players. The devs provide the playground and toys and they are done. So, by attempting to bring the two playstyles closer, Anet seems to understand they can release on schedule with a much smaller game world with PvE lite content "if" the PvEers can get hooked into the PvP mini games. This is not said as a bad thing or idea, if it did work, Anet would be right on. However, many people can not stand the competition for various reasons. Personally, I do not enjoy (actually, I despise) the PvP game "feel". It's rushed and I'm rushed all day. I like to log in, have a relaxing time with friends. The PvP games could close down and it would be a month before I noticed for that matter. That said, Anet has, IMO, missed it's target in thinking more people would actually play these PvP mini games. The PvEers seem more opt to just sit there (as I said they would upon seeing the FPE) and soak up the rewards... hey, I'm an old man still playing these games, I've seen the way people behave and watched them for years smash in Pong arcade systems when they lost.

/signed for completely seperating the two play styles so we can have a richer experience on both poles of the game. Don't think it will happen, but I can always hope. I can also hope Chapter 3 isn't built in a "conflict" (PvP) heavy way. I can also hope that Chapter 4 (since the Factions team is working on that) stays away from this type of play, maybe they learned enough to know the two do not mix well... on either side.

Guardian of the Light · May 23, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

It seems there is an animosity between PvP and PvE players that is increasing since the release of Factions. I know there are many of you who enjoy both aspects of the game, but there are those that lean more towards one style and have a disregard for the other.

There was always a conflict between the two sides (factions?) in Prophecies. That conflict has greatly increased in Factions now that Anet has tried to push us all closer together. I am hoping that Anet sees the error of their ways and, in future chapters, will seperate PvP and PvE so we can all enjoy the aspects of the game we prefer without further increasing the conflicts, flaming and name calling.

Please. No flames or attacks. Let's just discuss this suggestion in a peaceful manner, so we can all enjoy this game in our own way.

Peace.

Bingo you just said the biggest problem right there. You really are ruining the whole idea that this war affects the gameplay and such. I enjoy both sides and it gives me addvantages over people who do just one.

Also if Anet forced everyone to do both there wouldn't be any PvEers and PvPer now would there.

Please just keep it the way it is.

/not signed

EternalTempest · May 23, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I do not mean any disrespect for any of you out there, although i will be flamed for saying this anyway...
Giuld Wars is a PvP game, whether you want it to be or not. They balance skills based on PvP abuse (and 1% of the time on farming abuse). PvE is just an introduction, and should not be kept that seperate.

I started this game as a PvE'er, and a few months into it, started hardcore PvPing, and now I do both, and enjoy both almost equally (most pve players have no clue at all about how combat works). Without combining the 2, I would probably still be rank 0 (not like it's any different from rank 12).

No Flame actually - In the Radio Interview with Jeff (co-founder of Anet). He stated GW started as an RPG/Pve game with PvP added in (at it's heart was an RPG), they asked which came 1st but he goes on to say that BOTH are now very important PvE and PvP and they take great care to not neglect either one. The oringal set up was to go through via PvE then move on to Pvp to keep you in the game. Aka GW is BOTH now so the chicken / egg arugment has no merit anymore IMO.

Artisan · May 23, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

/notsigned.

I PvP with my PvE characters rather often. I wouldn't want to have to choose one or the other (I'd choose PvE btw, but still). Plus, I don't know how you would completely seperate them, other than releasing two entirely separate games.

Dougal Kronik · May 23, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

/signed

Remove the rewards for PvP play from affecting the PvE environment. Let the players who want to affect the PvE environment do so on their own - by playing the RPG aspect of the game.

MaD BaRoN HahA · May 23, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

/notsigned

One thing that people always say is theyre being forced to PvP - ur not if u want to faction farm do the supply run! if you want to try something different go for the PvP side. Im in a guild with a lot of new players that wont get in a PvP team apart from random arenas because they get called "noobs" when their not with the guild. The quests have let them try a different side of the game which most seem to have enjoyed.

Also its nice to have a fight for some objectives rather then just seeing what winning streak u can get for Balthasaar faction to spend on all the stuff ive already unlocked by PvE

Stockholm · May 23, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Reward's earned in PvE should not affect PvP and vise vers.
Then you really have the freedom of choise, you can still do PvP with your PvE toon but any rewards earnd during PvP does not count towards any PvE titels or Favor like system. And make factions earnd during missions and quests only count towards alliance goals, jade and amber can be made to drop insted of being exchanged for factions.

/not signed But I still do not want to PvP

ghostof · May 23, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

/not signed

I enjoy that you need to pvp to enjoy certain special areas. PvP in this game is very fun compared to the mind numbingly boring pve aspects. The proposed split says nothing of what will happen with FoW/UW, Faction Points, Skill Unlocks, etc. That by itself makes this unsignable.

At some point pve players gotta stop and realize this is a brilliant pvp game and stop repeating the same content and try something that makes them think just a tad. If the want to play FoW/UW or get factions rewards they need to pvp. I am not for unearned rewards for those unwilling to try pvp. I respect the opinion of those that hate pvp but I completely disagree with them on the view.

Priest Of Sin · May 23, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

*slaps the guy who insulted PvE (boring my foot)*

*slaps the guy who insulted PvP (boring my foot)*

It's good to have both sides in a game. And besides, PvP areas are few and far between.

WasAGuest · May 23, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostof

/not signed

I enjoy that you need to pvp to enjoy certain special areas. PvP in this game is very fun compared to the mind numbingly boring pve aspects. The proposed split says nothing of what will happen with FoW/UW, Faction Points, Skill Unlocks, etc. That by itself makes this unsignable.

At some point pve players gotta stop and realize this is a brilliant pvp game and stop repeating the same content and try something that makes them think just a tad. If the want to play FoW/UW or get factions rewards they need to pvp. I am not for unearned rewards for those unwilling to try pvp. I respect the opinion of those that hate pvp but I completely disagree with them on the view.

Said with respect, and in no way a flame. I enjoy your post cause it is the opposite (almost complete opposite of my view point). I find the PvP rushed, and to me, is dull. See target, spike target, rinse repeat.
I also feel that Anet needs to stop and realize there is potential for an even better PvE game and PvP game if they would stop spending resources on force feeding competition and merging the two styles.
By unlinking the two aspects completely, Anet would allow for each side to play as they desire. By unlinking, no one is saying do away with or limit the play. People would still be able to take the PvE characters to Battle Isle and play all they want. They could still enter arenas and play. What is meant by unlinking is that players are not wanting one side (and currently only one side) determining when and where the other can access. FoW was mentioned, and this is exactly what a great deal of people see as a problem. This has been a long standing debate and has been beaten to death as neither side understands the reasons (or even cares as is often the case) for the other point of view.
The most frustrating to most players is the fact that only the PvE gaming is limited and restricted by the PvP game. We could light a match to this thread and say "PvP matches should only be accessable after the player has completed the Titan Missions and the player only has 4 hours after that to compete". That solves nothing though and further irritates the issue.
That is why many want the two unlinked. It in no way restricts the players from playing what they want, it only removes the restrictions that are in place.
I've seen tons of arguments against removing favor and unlinking the two game styles, but I have yet to see a single one that would add respect or consern to a PvEer. Factions has tried to do that, but has failed*. I still do not care about the PvP game/titles or anything else PvP related... in fact, I see even less a reason to PvP with the addition of Factions. I believe this is due to PvP being Faction vs Faction (luxon vs kurzick) and the PvE being Alliance vs Alliance (bickering over Elite Missions)... if that info is incorrect, it would show even further how little the PvP meta game means to the Factions system.

I know saying "failed" is pretty bold, but one only has to look in the forums and see the arguments between the PvP and PvE crowd currently going on. They arguments are even more intense then they were pre-Factions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest of Sin

*slaps the guy who insulted PvP (boring my foot)*

*rubs face* Ouch. lol

Stockholm · May 23, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostof

try something that makes them think just a tad.

You know sometimes you get home from work and want to relax, been thinking all day on Important matters, matters that concern ppl's lively hood other peopls invested money and so on. Then go and do PvP so I can think a bit more while I get verbally abused by some preteen because his mamma pissed him off, or my attiention wanderd a tad, No thx I prefer PvE, where I can turn off chat channel and play the game.

dreamhunk · May 23, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

I don't mind pvp players being around. But as a rpg player i would like to see anet keep it promise of a good rpg. I would also like to see all the cool stuff for rpg. I don't want to see ideas throwen out because of pvp. I also don't want to see the skill rate change. If the pvp player want all there skills then give to them. let the rpg players get all the cool projects. I don't want force pvp on me as rpg player. I don't want a hack and slash game, I want real rp.

I have played pvp, I just don't find it fun. there is no real large scale battles and there is no mounts. The only thing fun I like in pvp is the cats. !2 vs 12 is ok.

lyra_song · May 23, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

/Not signed

/reverse petition

Integrate PVP and PVE more. Make a super rare armors set that requires Balthazar Faction.

Seriously. if you stay with just PvP or PvE, you are seriously lessening the full possibilities of this game.

Witchblade · May 23, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

dont care about pvp more than a few minutes of random arena per month

BUT players should NEVER be forced into it

(ex: factions pts )

Stockholm · May 23, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Integrate PVP and PVE more.

Seriously why not have NC-Soft close down A-Net straight away.
If you read the threads here on Guru you must have realiste by now that a big part of players prefere one form of the game and not the other and do not like beeing forced to enjoy the other ,pve to pvp or pvp to pve. This is not school where you have to do what your told.
GW is a game ppl love and they are making suggestions hoping to improve the game not kill it.
Neither side would standfor more integration, and if too many ppl leave the game, it's over, finito, goodbye THE END